Bra fitting help » Just too wide wires, or too-big cup/too small band?
Panache » Ariza Balconnet Bra (5051) » 32JJ 32:14
Issue resolved
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Original problem
I ordered this one together with a bunch of bras with 32bands: seeing as I measure less than 34", and is squsihy, I figured it would be fair. Some of the 32's I ordered were deffinitely too tight in the band: This wasn't one of them, but the cups seemed too small.
So I ordered it in 32K: http://www.bratabase.com/browse/panache/superbra-ariza-5051/32K/
Now I fear I've fallen into the 'reverse letter-phobia', so that I have a too small band and too big cup? It really covers a lot on my chest, and the wires seem very wide, and I get a lot of east/west boobs. But then again, it may just be the style: I could tell on the other 32 bands I got whether it was band or cup that was too small, so something is deffinitely different with this one, if I wrongly thought it was the cups, not the band. Perhaps it is just had so wide wires, that my body (not only boobs) will go into the cups no matter what? Hence why the JJ felt too small, because my body was taking up space? I have estimated my size to be 32JJ/34J, so in a way that would make sense.So, question being: On this 32JJ, is it the band which is too small, not the cups?
And on the 32K, is it just a weird style for me (it is very comfortable, I just don't like the coverage and east/west look), or is it a too small band/too large cup combo?
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helpfulHei there,
I think it's a combination of the "reversed letterphobia" and a rather wide wired Panache bra.
Personally I think that this bra is really much too tight for you, just comparing it to your measurements and the pictures.
Hence the wires are widened, the cup gets even more shallow and you've got the spillage.I used to see pics like that a lot with bands chosen too tight and hence distorted wires.
I'd suggest trying on more UK34 bras - maybe even try hooking an extender to the 34 bras just to check - and smaller cups.
I can't seem to find your breast measurements, could you provide me with them?denocte
Updated on September 28, 2012 Flag this
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ok, then definitely not go to any smaller cups ;) maybe trying 36es and taking them in would be an option. I think 34JJ is around a nice starting point. Someone just wrote a really good fit suggestion below, I suggest you talk to her :)
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36es? Did you mis-type? Why would I go for 36bands, when my problem was that many 34bands were not snug enough? And E's?
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sorry, misunderstanding. not "36E"s but 36bands in maybe HH and then taking the band in - in order to get cups that are large enough :)
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helpfulFinally I know something here
34 band you will get wires a little higher but a little less wide. And the reversed.
(This I am actually quite sure of)That you get east and west spread has to do with cup construction, not with size. To not get that with your boobs you would need a side support panel
Also balconette shapes with straps connected to the bottom section and less apex in the bra works for taking away east and west. I learned this the hard way and then I saw brasihate had learned the same lesson. So: You are wearing a full cup, that is not covering the upper part of the breast. To me that would say too small. Does not matter what band size you try it in.
Now: there seem to be a lot of bra fitting schools out on the internet right now. One says you are supposed to be able to wear your bra without the straps. That's the reversed letterphobia school. The boobs will then sit a little lower on your chest.
The advice I got from Nesoa on the other hand was that when high on chest this does not really apply since bras are made for lower on chest girls. To get all our boobs into the cups we will need to tighten the straps. Only then will we know if the bra is too small or not.
What I've learned this past months is that there will be a lot of advice and information. A lot of advice will contradict each other and the only thing one has to do is find out the way between all the different advices to see "what of all this apply to me?".
So now I will come up with some completely different: You see where your fat bulges with the band some cm above the cups in the front? The thing we fat girls think is fat. Well on me it wasn't. It was breast pure and simple.
I think breast tissue migration is far more common and/or severe on high on chest boobs. We are the ones born with boobs high up above our armpits and the goddamn bras never ever cover us there. So our boobs will sneak out on top of the wires. If we are fat on top of it we will think "it's just fat".
You and the bra you have on is 10 cm apart from each other in breast perimeter/cup depth. That says too small to me.
So I'm going to ask you the questions Nesoa asked me: What is your breast measurement hanging down (Effuniak style).
I do think the main part of your bra problems have stemmed from simply haven't tried cups big enough.
What happens when you put your measurements in the calculator of Sophisticated pair?
But this is only my thinking.
I don't know if this applies to you. I just know it applied to me. To cover the tissue up on my chest I needed to size up a lot.
Also my goodness I found the root of my breast in what I thought of as rolls on my side and fat just above my upper tummy. No wonder I always had pain from wires
Updated on September 28, 2012 Flag this
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The reason I though maybe east/west could be caused by wrong size, is if the wires wrap around my body more than they are supposed to, the cups would sort of angle away from eachother, if you can picture that. So insted of wires being __ __ they are / \
I like high wires, which this one has, but I am not sure whether it is too wide or not. It is wide, certainly, but too wide? Don't know. I haven't been able to tell at all where my breasts start - they are soft, and so am I, so I can't tell what is which.
It is generally a problem for me, with bras that are suppose to cover the whole breast: Besides high set breasts, I also have a very 'fleshy' chest, meaning I have a sloping apperance all the way from collar bone: There is no definite end to my breast, where a full cup bra's top can be at.
I do find I need to tighten straps, to avoid 'escaping' at the sides - is that what you meant about getting all the breast in the cup?
Which bulge are you refering to? That which is a bit above the cup, near the strap on front? that is very high up, so I don't know how I would get it in a cup. I do know, though, that I like bras to be sort of high near the straps, to keep that in check (look for example on 34HH Olivia that I have, with very low sides - not really working for me)
I have softish breasts, so they are easily molded into the shape of the bra: so if I lean forward they stick out much much more, than if they are molded round by a bra, so that is why I don't find breast to cup measuring that accurate. Leaning forward, I am currently at 50"ish, with 33" underbust - that makes Sophisticated pair offer me 34L/32LL's, but I really don't think that is quite accurate. For example, in this bout of ordering bras, I also got a Tango in 34JJ, which was too large in the cup (with straps tightened all the way, the cup was still baggy on me).
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Again you describe the same problems I had :D This is so interesting! :D
Boobs up to your collarbones - check! And yup it will probably not fit a lot of cups. It's built on height not on depth right?
What happens when you bend over 90 degrees? Where does your upper fat goes? On me it is placed as a new and bigger but shallower crease around what I once thought of as my boobs.
I've found out a way to alter pictures with gimp image editor to just become sketches. I'll try to get some pictures from a standing position in 90 degrees but it's kind of tricky to photograph oneself in that position to say the least :D
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"It's built on height not on depth right?" Ah, sorry, I don't understand. I've got a terrible headache, and thinking rather slowly :b Which is built on height not depth?
When I bend over, the upper fat generally goes all in my boobs: In fact, everything seems to go to my lowest point! Sides, upper fat, the rest of the breast. I get a smaller root that way, and a large bust measurement than what would actually match up with a bra.
Sketches can really be helpful in all this shape-talk! The ones I've done on my blog, I've done in paint and photoshop, but as I'm sure you can see, they are quite primitive :b
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http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000fkfzTZpCDU4/s/860/860/Fphoto-60130411B-2RM.jpg
Geometry :)
Same volume, different shape. Built on height I mean the tissue on top of your breast is shallow but goes far up your chest. Other boobs might have more depth. (No NOT the cup depth we are called to measure here that rather should be called volume, but depth as we are taught in school.) The volume will still be the same.
Bent over our boobs will be more narrow and longer. Which gets everything messed up if the boobs are shallow and soft as mine are. Because suddenly the boobs change shape.
Here we go. http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/408331_10151206935485540_350570555_n.jpg The numbers point at the crease I thought of as my boobs. As you can see they extend longer in every direction.
The only bra that can take care of my boobs is Andorra as the lace is so stretchy it can cover the tissue on top even if it's shallow.
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/399579_10151207030795540_902883484_n.jpg Here I am showing of that roll on my sides btw. Again a false crease in the front that I once thought of as the root of my boobs.
But again: I might just be a strange exception here :)
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"the tissue on top of your breast is shallow but goes far up your chest." Exactly! :D
Your sketches make me want to map up my boob creases as well, to get this sorted!
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I stood up, and drew where it looked like my breast ended - then I leaned forward and did the same. I expected the side to be different, but I am amazed at how much difference it made at the top!
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb2q2gKSFe1ryuzmuo1_400.jpg
Also, you see that mark right between the lines? Quite interestingly, I have a lot of these from bras: They tend to ruin my armpits, making them blue, tender and swollen. Then once in a while, a vicious wire will poke through my skin, into the already broken area. Had a stitch in that one. This led to the convo with my doctor saying "You should probably avoid wearing bras" *look at my chest* "or, if that is not an option, do proper research about what may be the right bra for you" hence (or at least one of the reasons) why I am here in the first place. So I find it interesting that the scarred area is well out of the area that appears to be breast, but well within the area that is probably breast tissue. -
Do it :D
At first I thought I was totally crazy. But when I saw my actual boobs for the first time (sketches in my last bra adventure) I just couldn't believe my eyes.
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Which direction is your photo taken? :D I am a little blind here :D Where is your hand in your picture? :D
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My hand is on my nipple :b And I am standing up straight - the mark you see to the left is on my armpit, the line you see near the top left is my arm. The vague line you see near the left bottom is a glimpse of the background behind me. So where the line is the highest, is at the front of my chest, towards me arm.
^Sorry for the over-edited photo, it's just so it seem less like posting a pic of my boob :b
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I can see the mark (ouch!!).
To me it seems your boobs extends way beyond those red marks??
You can crop of the front of the breast and just show the part with the marks and further back? Like the hulk images I've done of my creases :D
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Uhm I think I will know better also if you tell me: Where in the picture is your head? :D I think I might have gotten it wrong :D
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I mean I see no head and of course there is no head, I just cannot quite still understand what in the photo is your back :D
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I feel silly :b Hehe - but there is a rough sketch of which way is what - though I think my body is a bit more turned on the picture than in the drawing - the lines are definitely on my side, not my front, if that makes sense
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Oh my goodness. You do seem to have cropped off your boobs in the same fashion as me :O
Without high wires and a side support panel and straps tightened you will have that tissue on your back or loose at the armpit instead right?
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Yes! Not too much towards the back, but definitely the armpit, in all directions
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Try to move or pinch the tissue behind your marks on next PMS. On me it simply hurts like madness when I try to scope the tissue on my sides and in my armpit and that's how I found out it was boobs.
I have PMS for weeks so I might again be a little odd :D
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helpfulMy Bravissimo Inspire sports bra (in an extremely small running 30K) which is both too tight in the back and too small in the upper part of the cups for me - I like it this way for jogging & jumping - looks in many aspects almost identical from what I see in your 32JJ Ariza picture. The hooks also look very strained and I am also bulging over the top in the same distorted kind of way as you. The 32K Ariza looks much better. But I guess a 34JJ would be a more suitable fit for your shape and measurements. I am not an expert in fitting issues in any way, but I am rather sure bra fitting is not an exact science. Some bra calculators also offer a snugness option. So if you prefer a tighter band, because your breasts are very heavy and your ribcage is very squishable, then you should stick to a 32K in this style. So, no I don't think this is a case of so-called 'reversed letterphobia
By the way, I think this style suits you. But like t_maia already said: you may indeed need even wider wires. I also came to the conclusion that I need very wide wires. That's why I'll now try the Panache Harmony balconette.Updated on October 2, 2012 Flag this
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helpfulTo me the hook and eye closure looks very strained on that bra so it may be that the band is too small. It may be that the strained bra band is distorting the wires making them wider and shallower than they should be which is causing you to spill over.
Updated on September 28, 2012 Flag this
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I do see that it looks strained, but it din't feel like it - I think it may just have been folded - there is a bit of fabric behind the eyes, which means you wouldn't normally see the skin between hooks and eyes... I did compare how wide the wires are compared to Tango in 34JJ and Ewa Michalak in 34JJ, and they are a fair bit wider than normally, it seems...
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Panache are known for having wider shallower cups than other brands, I'm not really familiar with the Ariza so I'm not sure if they are wider than would be considered normal for Panache in this size, but if it's wider than 34JJ then its probably a fair guess that this cup is wider than usual for Panache.
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Oh, sorry, I actually meant that the Ariza 32K was wider than the Panache 34JJ
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Also I just took a look at your pics for the 32K and I see what you mean about the hook and eye closure it does look much better than on the 32JJ, but since you feel like the wires are too wide in 32K but band is ok then it could be that the extra space in the cups is making up for not quite enough room in the band. Maybe this just isn't quite the right style for you?
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Ah ok but you would still expect it to be roughly the same size as a 34JJ so if its a fair bit wider then probably just this bra is a wider fit than usual in the cup.
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I think you are right this may not be the style for me - regardless of if there is a sizing problem. I am just having a hard time to figure out what exactly is the right style for me! I long for the shape I see Ewa Michalak gives, and I had it when I almost fit in a CH 36H (though band was always too big), but since I've gone up about 2 cup sizes since, I can only get plunges, and they seem disastrous on me, just not for my shape :/ I am hoping that the new bras Ewa is working on will be better for me, since they will be for those who prefered styles like CH and CHP, but will be better for larger breasts. Crossing my fingers!
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Ugh I do sympathise on the plunge bras. They just don't seem to work for me either but at least I have some other choices available. I think if I only had plunge bras in my size I would rather go braless and live with the wobbly chest. Well maybe not but you get the idea. Eliza seems to be on a similar track to you so maybe she can help you find a better fit :)
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helpfulDude, it's ariza... It's just wrong.
Updated on September 29, 2012 Flag this
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helpfulI completely agree with denocte that this is a case of reversed letterphobia.
The Ariza runs very tight in the band, most people go for a larger band with the Ariza. I wear a 40HH with the Panache Tango, with the Ariza I could get away wearing a 44 band.
So yes, the cup is pulled flat by the band and the quadboob you get is related to that. Go for a 34 band in the Ariza. If the 34J feels loose, go down in cupsize!
The Ariza also has narrower wires than its counterpart the Tango. If you really need as wide wires as you I and Eliza do, go for other bras. Curvy Kate Emily would probably work well on you, and if you can find it on ebay Panache Harmony Balconette.
I also think that the shape of the cup in the Ariza is not quite right for you. The upper cup of the Ariza is set at a funny angle, if the upper cup is slightly too small for the upper part of the boob or if the upper part of the cup is pulled flat the upper cup presses the boob in, causing a slightly squarish shape. This often makes people think that the bra is too small, when it really is the wrong shape.
Updated on October 1, 2012 Flag this
I would say I am definitely not larger than a 34band - I have several 34bands that feel too loose, regardless of the cup size, hence why I tried out 32's, some of them successfully. If I try anything larger than 34, the band will soon be up around my shoulder blades.
34HH's are more often than not too small, and my current best fitting bras are 34JJ's, so I don't think it is unreasonable to go for cups in this range.
I just redid my measurements at 84cm/33 and 127cm/50, though it was recently 85/33.5 and 125/49.2, so it goes up and down a bit.