Bra fitting help » Advanced "Fitters" Needed! Trying to figure out what's different about this bra

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Ewa Michalak » S Wodzianka (505) » 70M 32:19

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  I can't pinpoint exactly why you spill out of one and not the other, but I do know that this cup is way, way too big on you. If you like this bra fit, great. But the reason you are spilling out of the silver one is that the cup is too big and therefore unsupportive, allowing your breasts to runneth over in the middle. (Of course you would also spill out of a cup that was too small and with soft breasts you might spill out of almost any plunge.) Especially on a Polish bra, the cups should be lifting your breasts much higher (so that nothing is below the root)and the wires should be narrower. Instead, you've got 'boob-sleeve' action going. I'm guessing you've just gone up and up in cup sizes in search of better fit, and I truly feel for you! The options out there for someone in your size range are not good. However I can't help suspecting you'd find a better fit in a much smaller cup.

  Lest you think I am speaking out of my ass, I've been on abrathatfits for 8 months and fitting in real life professionally for about 2 months.

  Updated on March 18, 2014 Flag this

  
  

  • Hi, thanks for the suggestion. I've actually wondered if this cup is too big or not, but since adding the pads only adds spillage, I was not sure. I am confused on how to tell if a cup is too big or not because if I move the straps to the center the gaping disappears so I just assumed the cup was too tall for me. I have tried this style of bra in the equivalent cup of a 70L and I was spilling out big time (see 75KK - Ewa Michalak » S Pieprzyk (473) ) yet I had more uplift...except it was terribly uncomfortable and digging in my arms.

    The only size I have left to try is the 70LL that is between the L and the M cups and I am not confident that I will get that kind of uplift. My breasts are rather heavy and pendulous by nature and also very soft because I am breastfeeding so I'm not so sure they will ever be very lifted. I would say that in the 70M - Ewa Michalak » S Onyks (I'm wearing it right now so that's why I listed this one) the lift is a bit above my breast root (when I stand correctly, I do have terrible posture). I get more lift with the pads but also extra spillage. I am thinking the straps don't adjust tight enough for me since they are at their tightest but I am not sure if tightening it might not just lead to them supporting too much weight or instead give me the lift I am looking for.

    I'm not trying to say you are wrong, but with my size and shape of breasts I can't say that I will necessarily fit into all the kinds of breasts you have seen as they are a bit of an unusual fit.
    

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    don't know if I qualify as advanced but my observation of bras available in this size range is that they are simply a design fail for many women.
    Again based on my unscientific observations the main issues are as follows--

    * Lack of depth in this size range forces wearers to resort to cup sizes which are massively too large for them ***in width***, because in the cup sizes where the underwire fits the breast root, the cup itself does not actually contain said breast. In other words consumers are forced to choose between too little depth and too much width. This also explains the notorious cup scaling issue and it's the reason women in this size range find themselves dealing with the strap and underarm misfit since these enormously wide cup sizes are not designed for their real build and torso size (neither in height nor in width).

    * Manufacturers/designers appear unaware that above a certain level of breast weight and projection, different construction and additional support elements would be required to provide uplift and prevent the cups from buckling under the weight (not to mention the genuinely alarming possibility of underwires being shoved down and inwards, denting and/or compressing the wearer's ribcage to the point of possibly creating ridges, dents and muscle atrophy in that region like an old time corset). Underwire, seams and a bit of foam padding are likely not sufficient to support larger breasts on a smaller torso and distribute their weight in a manner which is comfortable and healthy.

    * Although there are some existing, traditional bra constructions that would be relatively more suitable for the fit needs of this demographic, these are typically neglected by bra makers in favor of designs which are eminently UNsuitable. The overwhelmingly Polish and British full bust/full fit market favors "cute and sexy" balconnet, plunge and other low cut, comparatively low coverage constructions compatible with current fashions and this makes large cup offerings even more inadequate (See point above--underwire, thin padding and seaming are simply not up to the task of supporting K cups on a smallish torso, not to mention that such styles are characterized by wide set straps which only exacerbates the width vs depth fit dilemma.) Manufacturers targeting this demographic also attempt to offer lowish price points in order to remain competitive. Put simply, they do not believe that young, size-aware customers with small to average backs/builds and K+ cup sizes could ever be induced to spend over 100 USD on a full cup seamed bra with narrowly set/centered straps and constructed with more expensive, higher quality materials, and consequently no such bra exists in this size range even though it would probably offer better fit than the ubiquitous balconnets and plunges.

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    That's a brilliant analysis. You've summed up in a few paragraphs what I and others like me have slowly been finding out the hard way. I would definitely say this particular bra (well honestly, all EM bras I have tried) suffer from the cup width issue. The wire is good, the depth is fine, but I have a lot of extra cup width and height that I don't need. I also have the issue with the weight resting my ribs and/or sliding down as I mentioned and lovely red, but thankfully painless marks as a result.

    I'm attempting to fix at least some of these issues myself and then share them as alterations but as far as ready made bras go, the only bra brand that ever seemed close to realizing these issues was Kris Line which hasn't quite made it up to my size yet. But ironically (or perhaps not), Kris Line is about 90 USD, contains very high quality materials and is making very slow headway outside of Poland.

    Is there any chance I can copy your comment to my blog with your username sourced? I want to make a post about my issues with the S style bras and bras in general so others don't have to sit there wondering the same things I have.

  • This is the Kris Line bra I have by the way, and it offers more lift and more comfort and less bra than anything else so far: 75M - Kris Line » Brillant Unpadded Bra (5305)

  • Absolutely, feel free to cite me in any context :-) I felt strongly that this problem was largely to blame for the Strapgate conflict (basically EW venturing into a size range for which her designs, materials, etc. are not well-suited).

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    Even in the 75KK you're not getting good lift. Too-big cups will cause or exacerbate the strap/cup in armpit/too-wide strap issue. Here, the stretched band length is smaller than your tight ribcage measurement, so I wonder if going up a band size or two in EM would improve your fit; I suspect it would. I think you're getting spillage in a much-too-big cup partially because the too-tight band is pulling some cup to the side, wasting it. Much the same way a too-large band can mask a too-small cup, the opposite is also true.

    I'd email Ewa Michalak with pictures and measurements and ask what size she recommends, the next time you're ready to buy a bra. (You can do this with Comexim too, and probably Kris Line.) If you just look at EM's models, she really can fit someone your size well. You are a fit challenge not because of the size of your breasts (which are not super unusual and I've fit ladies much bigger) but your small torso size...as I'm sure you know. However you are not impossible to fit! Good luck!
    

  • WendyBien - Oh I agree. I'm thankful for the option from Ewa Michalak but it seems like she just kind of threw up her hands and gave up and got angry when people told her it didn't work for them. When I actually move the straps I get a ton of extra cup (the extra cup width, like you're saying) that I'll probably have to cut off because it just becomes excess bulk. The bra also gets a more minimized, rounded effect but works better for me functionally. I also think that a non-stretch and wider strap (and more hooks) might work better for large cups but I have yet to test these things and their comfort.

    If this wasn't the shape she wanted, I can see why she got so mad (though it was pretty piss-poor customer service and shows negatively on her as a bra designer that she cannot attempt to overcome the problem)

    Do you have a blog or something? I felt almost like I have read similar sentiments before somewhere and I'm doubting you're just a newbie to the scene.

    melifish, EM's size calculator says 75KK or 75L which I have tried. I The 75 band is fine at first and then starts to hurt my back, and rides up, while the 70 does not ride up or hurt my back so I know the 75 is too large. I may have had a bad stretched measurement bcause of my fear of damaging the underwires. I have talked to Comexim and Kris Line, they do not have sizes for me. Kris Line says they are thinking about getting new sizes in winter 2014, so maybe then. I was "fitted" if you can call it that in their U.S. distributor store and their biggest cup was still too small for me. I think in this instance the issue is simply too much empty cup at the sides and top because my breasts are quite deep and narrow and the cup is quite wide and shallow even though the wire is narrow like I need. I do appreciate your trying to help me though.

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    No I don't have a blog xelestial, but what I'm saying is not really new news, for the most part, and I've read many bloggers and just regular people posting on various sites making the same points although perhaps more piecemeal than the way I presented it here. I am absolutely a newbie in terms of "the scene" online and posting and discussing bras here, but not so much a newbie in terms of bras that fit. I had the good fortune to be properly fitted from early adolescence and to be a size that was not too incredibly hard to find (until pregnancy and lactation hit!) So unlike a lot of posters I do have about 20 years' experience of fitting myself in sizes that are actually comfortable and supportive and I have helped many friends and relatives find a better fit. I am sensitive to the issue of large bust/small back people because my sister has always had this issue and it absolutely crippled her self-image and self-esteem.

    I think the one small angle that I might be able to offer that is a bit different is that I grew up in France and (pregnancy and nursing times aside) have been largely very faithful to French brands, which do tend to be more expensive so I don't recommend them to everyone, but this has given me a wider frame of reference and enabled me to notice some of the glaring fit and comfort issues that arise with bras that are offered at lower price points, especially with regard to materials and fine tuning of design. Let me tell you, post babies, when I tried to get back into non nursing bras and was temporarily sized out of my beloved Lejaby, Lise Charmel, Simone Perele etc. I therefore ventured into Freya and co., but after a lifetime of high quality, iron-firm-support French bras, it was quite an eye opener, and I was APPALLED by things that might seem normal to others--such as thin fabrics on bands, skinny little elastics, wimpy mesh, bras constructed with very few pieces etc. I could see a huge difference in comfort and support, and I've never really been larger than a 32FF/G UK, so I can hardly imagine the nightmare of trying to find optimal support in the K+ range.

    Re: EM I disagree slightly that it reflects poorly on her design skills to be unable to offer bras that work for this particular demographic, she is still basically a boutique designer with, I imagine, small means. Few bra makers operating on this scale can be all things to all people. Her designs seem to be great for average to bigger back-large cup combos for instance, and for tiny back-medium to medium large cup combos. It's more in the tiny back very large cup segment that her product range becomes iffy. I did read somewhere that her reps have said her signature fit features medium to slightly wider wires (compared to other Polish makes at least) so that is something wearers should keep in mind and not necessarily expect her to change that unless she feels it is workable for her business and her vision as a designer. She also has been in business for only a few years unlike some of the big lingerie brands that have been around literally over a century, so it makes sense that she doesn't have a rich archive of design tricks to draw on yet. So there is my little defense of her as a designer (again, full disclosure I don't own her products and haven't even handled them so take my opinion for the remote second hand judgment that it is!) HOWEVER, I do agree with you that she lashed out at customers when she felt accused of not making bras well and got herself into quite a PR disaster. Designers are known to have a good dose of "artistic temperament" aka they can respond viscerally and emotionally and when they go into business on their own and face the challenges of dealing directly with the public, these things do happen unfortunately.
    

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    em's calculator calls for a leaning measurement, which overestimates on pendulous breasts. i'd ask her instead! if the cups are too big, it makes the band too big (and ride up).

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