Bra fitting help » 28GG Cleo Lucy Fit Help

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Cleo » Lucy Balconnet Bra (5851) » 28GG 28:10

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  OK I think there are a few misconceptions that have been creating difficulty for you.

  First and foremost: Breasts themselves do not pull wires back. If a wire is too narrow to encompass your tissue it will just sit on top of your boob causing obvious pain. Breast width is not the reason these wires are being pulled back! The wires are being pulled back by the tension in the band, which is several inches too tight for you. You have a lean torso, so a supertight band won't create the huge bulges on you that can be seen on fluffier ladies, but this still looks to be at least 3-4" too small. You would need to put on 2 extenders end to end to see how the cup volume really matches up with your own breast volume.

  This cup is almost certainly too deep for you, but as it is being pulled by the tight band and wrapped way back around your torso, it's distorted. This is also the reason for the horizontal creases you see.

  In a well-fitting bra, the band must be only as tight as is required to keep it from riding up--not as tight as you can possibly bear or as tight as it can be. Some people like the feeling of compression, but since bras are not made to be worn this way it will ruin the fit--try shapewear instead if you want tight support round the torso, and wear your bra normally snug, not excessively so.

  Finally, tissue migration, though much discussed in bra-fitting online communities, is an entirely UNPROVEN phenomenon. Breast tissue has been studied very extensively and no researcher has ever found evidence of cells from this type of tissue moving around in the body. Breasts can grow when you cease compressing them, resulting in a lower underbust and therefore smaller underbust measurement... but this is not the same as breast tissue actually moving from one part of the body to another. Similarly some women do have a prominent tail of spence or some axillary breast tissue, but this is natural and not a deformation due to badly fitting bras.

  Anyway, if you have objective evidence of breast tissue going round your torso i.e. you can tell the difference with ordinary torso fat/muscle, it is tender and swells w/hormonal fluctuations, etc. then yes you are probably right that you have unusually wide roots--but this is the way you are naturally, not because of wearing sports bras.

  If on the other hand you've just been assuming that your roots were super wide because of what the wires are doing here or because you've read horror stories about migration, I would reconsider that and try to identify where your breast tissue really ends on your sides, then re-measure to search for the right size cup.

  Updated on August 12, 2014 Flag this

  
  

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  Hi,

  I guess the band is a little too tight for you. As I experienced unpadded Cleos run really snug. Maybe you can try a 30? Another point are the wires, their form doesn't fit you. They are too deep and are stretched by the band. You could try Freya Balconies for example, they have lower and rounder wires.

  Updated on August 12, 2014 Flag this

  
  

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  Your band is way too tight, it is stretching the cup wires, making you think the cups are shallow. Try this- place the bra on your breasts without fastening- you will get a better idea of where the underwire would sit if the band was correct.

  Also make sure you are bending slightly to swoop and scoop your breasts into the bra before checking for fit.

  I suspect in this bra you are a 30 band, if not a 32. Some brands of bras you will need different band sizes, I am both a 32 and 34 depending on the brand and/or style. I am unable to suggest a cup size because of the band issue.

  Updated on August 15, 2014 Flag this

  
  

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  Thanks!

  I tried a Cleo Lucy 30G and it was too loose in the band. It has the prior (incorrect) measurements included in this post.

  My (new) ABTF measurements are: SU - 28.5; BTTU - 27.5; Standing: 36.5; Lying: 36; Leaning:38.5. I find these are more accurate for my size because my root is so wide.

  I might try the Freya Patsy again in a 28GG and a Freya Marvel in a 28GG & 28G. Are these both considered balconies?
  

  Updated on August 12, 2014 Flag this

  
  

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    I'm not sure how you define loose or tight, but the visual appearance of this bra strongly, strongly indicates it is not a good fit due to an overtight band. Looking at your numbers, old or new, doesn't tell a very different story--there is no reason for a person as lean as you, in your cup size range, to be wearing a band that is just 0.2" bigger than her break the tape underbust measurement. Some people do need this but they are typically (a) fluffier and (b) endowed with very heavy, large, projected breasts that will drag the front of the bra down and cause the back to ride up unless the band is extremely snug. If such a person measures her underbust her BTT number will still be at least 2-3" bigger than her actual ribcage circumference (I mean the circumference of the bony structure itself) and she will of course be more compressible in that area. In your case, your BTT measurement represents pretty much the size of your ribcage at its smallest when you are perfectly still and have very little air in your lungs (we tend to breathe out when we are focusing intently, e.g. to measure ourselves). As you can imagine, you do move around and breathe and use your upper body, so you need to take this into account when fitting yourself in a band. Taking myself as an example: I am about 28" BTT and 29" or so measured snugly... BUT when I take a normal (not deep) breath my snug measurement shoots up to almost 33"! As you can imagine, even a 30" band is really not a good fit on me; I need at least 31.5" to be comfortable.

  • 32" bands are too big. They ride up and I often have to start at the tightest hook. And yes, my breast tissue was actually distorting the wires of my 32F Cleo Lucy, even on the loosest hook. I thought the idea here was to not add 4" to the underbust as store measurements typically do, but to have a band that could comfortably be snug.

    I'm not going to get into the migration topic here. That has been thoroughly discussed elsewhere.

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    I'm not saying you need a 32, but I am truly confused as to why you think you would need a band that is 27.7"? Do 30s ride up on you?

    ETA of course the "idea" here is not to add plus four willy nilly, but nor is it to universally promote +0 or actually subtracting inches across the board. The "idea" on Bratabase is to help people find bras that fit their actual body instead of being married to a dogmatic formula. For some people the best band size will be +0, for some it will be -2, for some -3 or -4, for some +2, and for me it is +3 or 4 because of my large lung capacity and tapered ribcage. When we see someone with a particular bra and the band is riding up, we tell her to size down in the band. When we see someone with a band that looks crazy tight on her, we tell her to size up in the band.

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    OK, thank you for that explanation. It makes sense as to why I need a bigger band and will start with a 30.

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  Libby Ulalume velociraptor , would you be willing to offer any suggestions? I saw your comments in other posts about wide root/shallow breasts.

  My roots go almost perpendicular to the floor and extend at least to the back of my armpits which is why I included the ABTF measurements in my original post.

  Updated on August 12, 2014 Flag this

  
  

  • 1

    I think Wendybien is pretty spot-on here. It looks like the band is too tight and it's pulling the wires back. Based on the measurements you posted too, a 28 band seems much too tight. Personally if I measure tight, I'm just under 27, comfortable is about 29 and loose is 30 and I'm definitely not in a 28 band. I'd be dying in a band that tight most of the time. I mostly wear a 30, but in the case of a lot of Cleos whose bands run tight, I often wear a 32.

    As far as the wide root and shallow breast issue, unpadded Cleos have never worked for me. The shape of the cup is too closed on top and too deep for me, but I'm at the very wide and shallow end of the spectrum. Some girls who are still wide and shallow, but less so than myself have success with the unpadded Cleos. Most of my best fits are with bras are constructed only of vertical seams.

    I also think you might be misconstruing where your root ends. I'm not sure what the best way to figure that out is though, since I would have a hard time with it myself if I hadn't breastfed. In my case, I can tell what's boob and what's just skin or fat only because of which areas would fill up with milk.

  • Thank you! I will start with the 30 band then. The root that I am seeing is a consistent line that extends from the bottom of my breast and goes up at a shallow angle to about 2" below the back of my armpit. Does that make sense?

  • That line is tricky because on some people it is indeed the outer crease indicating the edge of the root, whereas on others it is really just a fold in the skin that does not necessarily coincide with the real outer limit of the breast tissue. For example, on me, it is definitely just a fold in the skin--my boobs are narrow, projected and supersoft and their heft sort of just weighs down the skin on my sides enough to make a fold that is placed just where you describe. If you lift up the naked boob with your hand (as if it were supported in a bra cup) and look at your sides, do you still see that line? If it's not there anymore, then your breast root may be a lot narrower than you've been thinking.

    If that line is indeed the edge of your breast tissue, this would suggest that your tissue distribution/root shape is sort of a wide V shape rather than the half-oval or half-circle shape assumed by most bra manufacturers. Roots that are V shaped on the bottom can be very tricky to fit in underwired bra for this reason, but some people can make it work by looking for bras with either low, short (as in not tall) wires that only cup part of the breast root bottom; or else very soft, bendy wires (in extreme cases certain nursing bras can be great because they have flex wires that are not made to be rigid).

    ETA - Pardon my bratabase stalking but in this Wacoal 32DD bra you do not appear to have a wider than average root--it looks average to narrow actually:
    http://www.bratabase.com/bra/dlfsw/
    The cup and band both look a little too big so a 30E, or 30F would seem a reasonable size to try for example.
    

  • I think this is the heart of the issue. The line does not disappear if I support my breast as you describe. It stays entirely intact.

    Do you know which bras would have the soft and bendy - yet wide wires? I would like to be able to pull my tissue forward instead of looking like I have underarm fat.

  • I've always felt that Freya had softer wires than I liked, but they are not known for their shallow cups. Off the top of my head I can't think of other non nursing styles that have particularly bendy wires, but it is a common complaint (many people dislike them because they have the opposite shape challenge) so some savvy googling or even searching on here for "soft wires" "bendy wires" etc., or an Adventure, will probably bring a bunch of suggestions.

    You can also look for bras with short wires: half cups, demi cups etc.

  • Thank you!

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    You also don't want to go with wires that are wider than you need them to be, since that isn't going to "pull tissue forward" if it isn't truly part of the boob itself. It will have the opposite effect in that now there will be cup space way farther back than you need it to be, and boob that would normally be in the front of your body will get squished into your armpits, which will make your boobs look smaller (since part of them will be hiding out under your arm). If you read some people's reviews of the Tutti Rouge Liliana Bra (TU100) , which is known for having extremely wide wires, that's a common problem. I've heard a lot of people with that bra saying something along the lines of "where did my boobs go?"

  • 1

    Very good point Ulalume . The tricky thing about a more V shaped breast root base is that the BOTTOM of the root is really not wide--it can even be pretty narrow. So if a person with this shape is trying to find bras where the wire is broad enough to capture all the tissue that's up at the top of the "V" they may have a ton of empty space down at the smaller base of the V, while bras where the wire is narrow enough to cup the small base of the V often cut painfully across the outer edge of tissue at the wide top of the V.

    For this same reason, it can be tricky to figure out the cup depth you need. Not only because depending on how high you measure your horizontal breast perimeter, that may not AT ALL match up with the part of the cup where the depth was measured when someone measured it--but also because your overbust measurement may lead bra size calculators to assume that ALL your breast tissue will be in the cup when in many cases people with V shaped roots prefer low-cut, low-coverage cups so they essentially only need to fit the "point of the V" lower half of their breasts which can be small yet projected.

    All the above can lead to extreme confuzzlement. I have been there with my SIL and several of her actress/dancer friends, as this breast shape is common in women with slim or athletic body types. Those who can afford it typically prefer high-end non-wired bras, lace bralettes etc.

    Oh that reminds me CariT there are now a few contoured (molded) NON-wired bras out there. There's a deco for example. This could be very much worth looking into, as you will get the shaping of a wire, but without all the fit issues.

  • I filled out the 32F and the 30G Cleo Lucy very well on the bottom, which is supposed to be a FOB bra. Would this still happen with what you're describing? But, this does sound a little familiar in that the wire marks from most of the bras I've tried hit the inframmatory fold in the center of my breast, but hit below the root line on the sides.

  • Is this the Freya deco you're thinking of?

    http://www.bratabase.com/browse/freya/deco-moulded-soft-cup-bra-4231/

  • 1

    Yes that's the one! It's definitely worth a try.

    As for filling out any particular bra on the bottom--unfortunately this fact alone doesn't mean much, because what with gravity, the bottom of the cup is where any boob will tend to end up. The only info you can glean from that is that your projection is not excessive for those bras.

    Cleos, as far as I can see, tend to have either a round and shallow, or round and moderate-projection shape. Either way, as a brand they do not strike me as having a lot of great options for people whose root shape deviates from that, although there may be a couple exceptions--Cleo experts may be able to advise.

  • I've written an extensive suggestion now, because you asked ;). I'm not sure I've come up wuth anything new, however, apart from bra styles I'd recommend.
    I'm not sure about the Freya Deco Softcup for people who need very wide wires or even for people in your size range. It has seams at the sides which are about as narrow as Cleo wires and these are apparently too narrow for you, and it also becomes fairly unstable in the bigger cup sizes. If you place a big order with, say Bravissimo, anyway it won't do any harm to include it, though :).

  • I haven't tried the Deco Softcup myself, but I have recently gone on a non-wired bra binge and I've observed that seams and boning do not need to coincide with the breast root shape--it's not a problem the way it would be if an underwire sits on top of breast tissue. I have a Rago longline (with a band that is boned and sort of shapewear-y) and on the left, my larger side, the cup construction is a little narrower than my boob--so I have both seams and boning going over the outer edge of breast tissue, but support and comfort are totally unaffected. So, again I have not tried the Deco but I would say it is worth attempting.

    Also I really do not think CariT needs a very large size. She has been sizing up in an effort to find wires wide enough, but IMO if she is wearing bras that are suited to her shape she will be in a lower size range. a 30F or 28FF could be great in the Deco--bearing in mind that non wired cup depth measurements are not quite comparable to wireds because the gore is not meant to tack, so on me for example 10" depth in a non-wired bra fits like a 11" deep cup in a wired bra.

  • Hi, I know this is resolved but I just wanted to say that I was on vacation and couldn't respond, so apologies for the lack of input. The advice everyone gave here is fantastic!

  • Thanks! :)

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  I agree 100 per cent with Kirschsaft , wendybien and Ulalume on the band. IMO you should stick with 32 bands, around 32F/FF, or at the tightest - in very wide bra styles or if the 32s really do ride up - 30 bands, then 30G/FF, if your measurements are shown correctly. I'm not sure what your ABTF measurements mean, but my own medium, not supertight, ribcage measurement is 27.5 and I wear 30 bands, which I extend a bit with unpadded Cleos! Here the cups and wires are distorted by the much too small band. It is very obvious in the pics!
  I'm not sure at all about Freya balconies, though, if you really need wide wires and shallow cups. They are the opposite. Marvel is an exception to this.
  "Lepel Fiore Padded Plunge in 32F- the shape was way too pointed." This seems to be the only style (that comes in your size) where wires and cups fit you? The pointy shape disappears with washing and wear, I'm told, so it might be worth another try (I haven't worn my own Fiore plunge often enough to confirm this.). Apart from this Bravissimo halfcups have equally wide wires and so do many Tutti Rouges. The Tutti Rouges might not give you a very nice shape, however, but if you have firm breasts, they probably will. Freya Marvel might be worth a try. It didn't work for me or other girls with classical wide root shallow boobs (which are usually smaller), but seeing as our boobs seem to be pretty different in many other respects, it might work for you. Its wires are definitely very wide compared to the depth of its cups. Then you could try certain Fauve halfcups: Mia, Celine, Isobel, Merissa, Marla if you can still find them (the latter two's wires are a bit narrower than the first three's), and bras made by the Scandinavian brand Change.
  Like the others, I also suggest that you check if your breast tissue really extends that far under your armpits. The only really reliable method here is learning to feel the difference between breast tissue and fat (breast tissue feels a bit more like minced meat - sorry about this, but it's the description that helped me - whereas fat feels smoother. Just poke your fingers into your belly and your boobs and you'll hopefullly understand what I mean.)
  Good luck!!

  Updated on August 13, 2014 Flag this

  
  

  • Thank you for commenting and for the description on breast tissue versus fat. My belly has so many stretch marks from twins it feels like minced meat, too! :) There is a difference between the feel of the tissue directly in my armpit (very smooth) vs a couple of inches below. When I feel the tissue that extends from the bottom of my boobs and angles up to a few inches below my armpit, it feels the same. It feels firm all over and fibrous.

  • I am in the US. I've thought of ordering from Bravissimo but have hesitated because of the return shipping. Do you know if I'd have to pay export fees if I return goods overseas?

  • Fibrous is also how I would describe the feeling of breast tissue, in comparison with my regular torso squishiness (which is not as firm as it used to be!) This being said, a lot of people do have some axillary breast tissue (in the armpit) but depending on your anatomy, it can be high enough and flat enough that the furthest-reaching tissue really doesn't need to be contained within an underwire; it just needs not to be poked or interfered with.

  • Thank you, that's something I needed to know, along with your comment above. I'm learning a TON here! My tissue is so spread across my chest, it's hard to know what size I am. I "fit" into my 32F Cleo Maddie, but I still feel like I'm spilling out the sides, the band is too big and wires are not right. So...it's not a good fit.

    When I look at the Venusian Glow website (http://www.venusianglow.com/2013/03/examples-of-shallow-breasts-nsfw.html), I'm a classic shallow shape. My root is like Bust H especially on the sides, but my projection/front is like more like Bust D with a little more bottom projection. I don't think I'm ever going to encompass ALL of my breast tissue with any bra.

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