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• wendybien

• oh wow ok I looked at all the places you tagged me and I definitely think the issue we discussed has something to do with nontacking gores. I mean in many of the bras it's a lack of tension but when the cups get so tall and are not pulled forward by being filled, the strap/cup edges end up effectively being caught against the front of your arm if you see what I mean.
  I'm curious, you seem to have almost all cups where the depth greatly exceeds your lying-down perimeter. Is that because you get quadding at the edge in sizes that are closer to your perimeter? or do you get problems with wires too narrow or something else?

• My tissue is super firm, so my laying perimeter is not a good measurement for what I need because I get really bad gore not tacking, pain from compression, and/or quadding. For example, with my 40HH - Elomi » Amelia Spacer Moulded Bra (8740) I took in the gore and wire it one day. The bra cuts in slightly causing the gore to untack at the top and I get major compression pain with or without an extender. My 40J - Elomi » Tia Bandless Bra (4280) is the same way plus in cup quadding with/without extender. I get major quadding on my 42HH - Elomi » Anushka Plunge Bra (4061), 40JJ - Curvy Kate » Curvy Kate Poppy Balcony Bra (CK10011)

  So I don’t really know what to do. All my tissue is up front right by the gore where I need tons of room but to get enough room there I have to size up in the cup a bunch and the sides get all floppy.

• Also if you look at my underband+ overboob measurement I measure about 42:14 in a super tight soft bra where I’m muffining out the top, so really if anything I’m squeezing myself into a 40JJ when I should be in a 42JJ.

• I hear you about needing room for center fullness which may cause the cup edge to be too shallow or closed. (Also for anyone even moderately apex-projected I would avoid molded foam bras with such a "flat" or blunted profile as the Amelia because that shape can shove the breast glands back against the ribcage, which is uncomfortable for almost everyone)

  Now for a million questions... feel free to address as slowly or fast as you want, I just wanted to put all the brainstorming in the same post :-)

  1/ Polish or not - I see you have some Wellfitting and Ewa bras in your list from years ago--did those cause you any pain or discomfort in the breast area at the time they were an OK fit? If they were good, is there a reason you are not returning to those brands currently? Is it price or a fit reason per se?

  2/ cup dimensions - If Polish bras are unaffordable I imagine you have done a search by measurements already to look for deep cups that are less tall and wide-- what are the best measurements you would want (even if currently hard to find)?

  3/ Asymmetry - I see from your profile that you have a significant (1.5 cup) asymmetry-- are you in the habit of using a pad, cutlet or other equalizing item(s) on the underside of the smaller breast? Asymmetrical breasts usually don't have the exact same breast base height--the smaller one often has its IMF a little higher, causing the wires not to sit level. So the bra is not quite stable and this allows unwanted breast movement, poking, pain etc. The tight strap adjustments even in older reviews without this characteristic of unfilled upper cup suggests to me that you might have felt the need to stabilize or adjust more than the average wearer even back then (unless it is just a habit). Most high-set people adjust the straps short, but not tight.

  4/ Quadding - I assume the Anushka 42HH and the Poppy 40JJ have quadding now, but not at the time the pics were taken? Can you add at least one pic on either one of these to show where it occurs?

  5/ Pain causes and further clues to fit problems: I am not a doctor but I have never heard of tissue firmness causing significant bra-induced pain or sensitivity in and of itself, although of course both firmness and natural sensitivity can occur in the same person. So I am wondering about whether you actually have more than one fit issue causing it in the bras you mention (do you have pain in many bras, at the end of the day for example?)
  Some common fit problems that cause pain:
  - well-developed pectoral muscles, location and shape of tail of Spence or outer edge of breast tissue, and/or breast position (high set, which applies to you) means that there is really no fitting underwire bra that can sit on the body without poking or sitting across sensitive tissue, be it muscle (actually super sensitive) or breast tissue. These people often find that they are better-served in wirefree options.
  - referred pain from excessively tightened straps,
  - pain from tissue being forced out of place (eg east-west if your breasts are naturally centered or centered for people who are not naturally oriented that way)
  - wires poking you in the sides
  - nontacking gore causes inner ends of wire to trap breast tissue underneath them or poke them when they sneak behind it
  - nontacking gore causes lower curve of wire to dig painfully into ribcage causing referred pain all the way up into the breast
  - wires thrusting up into the underside of the boob (happens in situations where a heavier breast is in a too-loose cup, which allows it to overhang the wire significantly)

  As you can see wires are involved in the vast majority of the pain/discomfort issues related to poor bra fit. If you have SOME wired bras in which you can be 100% pain free all day every day, those are the ones we want to focus on to see what exactly makes them better for you. and try to find bras that have those qualities but not any of the other fit shortcomings.

  End of Dickens novel! lol

• My phone camera is broken and I don’t have another camera so I will have to wait until my husband comes home but:

  1. Ewa was way too tall and wide set even with a cup too small (I tried a number of band sizes). I haven’t gone back to them because my only option is about $100 and the straps are useless- so wideset they would only support if I were wearing football pads.

  Comexim was great, I loved it until I outgrew it and the wires began to slide down and dig in to my stomach. When I asked them to make a 95N they were hesitant, making me also hesitant as that means I will be their fit model. I also didn’t work much of last year so it was easier to buy rtw, especially as I gained 20 -30 lbs and couldn’t afford to keep ordering special orders.

  2. I’ve made my own bra frame out of an old bra. The wires that fit me best are Porcelynne 58 or 60 vertical flats. My breast base is a flat line so these are the only wires that don’t dip below my imf abs gouge me in the stomach. When they are sitting in the right place they are 2.5 inches tall at the gore, 4.5 inches high at the side, and 8.5 inches wide, which is too wide for me at top but perfect at the bottom at my imf- doesn’t cut in to my tissue like regular vertical wires.
  I have symmastia about 3 inches up from my imf so a bra that tacks with a gore higher than about 2.5 inches hurts immediately- burning pain that radiates. I have actually worn a bra like that for a year because that was the only discomfort.

  Because of my omega shape, if I Wear a bra with not enough depth, the bra pushes my tissue back into my armpit and the fold where my breast meets my pecs gives me heat rash. So anything less than 16 in seems to do that to the point where I can’t wear the bra at work.

  Ideal dimensions thus seem to be
  Band 42 in
  Width 8 in
  Depth 16-16.5
  Gore: 2.5
  Wing: 4.6

  This bra does not exist. There are no bras on the market with this cup depth and less than a 3 in gore.

  3. Assymetry: my breast base is the same height on both sides. My smaller breast is shorter and less full on top. I find cutlets to be hot, uncomfortable, and bulky. I’ve even made my own and I just don’t like them. And pushing up from the bottom doesn’t stabilize the bra much, just gives me less room at the bottom. I used to adjust the straps super tight because they constantly slid off.

  4. Pics to come

  5. I only get the pain I described when wearing too small bra cups. This has happened with both my 40HH - Elomi » Amelia Spacer Moulded Bra (8740) and feels like burning everywhere. I feel instant relief when I take it off. It has also occurred with my 40N - Goddess » Keira Nursing Bra (6092) on pre-period week. The general sense is of painful compression in the breast, much like occurs with a too-tight band. I also experience slipping and digging into my stomach, like with my beloved Wellfitting bras when they got too small.

  Currently I have no bras that fit me where I can wear them without some discomfort over the 14 hour work day. I have a few I can wear with minimal discomfort.

  40JJ - Elomi » Soraya Plunge Bra (4270) and 40K - Curvy Kate » Poppy Balcony Bra (CK10011) I can wear with only slight riding down and burning where the gore digs into my stomach at the end of the day.

  By the way, when I push in the gore to my Soraya to get it to tack at the top I get a tiny bit of side boob.

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  thanks for taking the time to answer all that in one go!

  It's great news that your asymmetry affects where the breast ends on top and not the base--at least that means your band sits horizontal.

  The fact that your everything seems to go a bit haywire in certain places where wires contact your ribcage makes me wonder if you would be better served by wire-free but I am concerned that the Goddess Keira caused you pain. You measured the cups at about 17.6" deep but I know measuring soft cup bras is a little bit unrepresentative of the actual volume available-- so do you think it was simply too small or was it a matter of a tight band?

• The band stretches to much bigger than my ub measurement and sometimes rides up, and I quad a bit on top sometimes so I think it’s the depth in total.

• Here, take a look at 40J - Curvy Kate » Dragonfly Plunge Bra (SG5411). My arms are up in my side picture but when they are down I fill the whole bra except for the little triangle at the top where my root is slightly shorter than the bra. Don’t you think I need all the depth, considering how much I fill the cups? Btw, this is a very comfy bra except i can’t do the straps over the whole day. I’ve thought about replacing them.

• Also I get a soft tack at the very top of the gore which is good because otherwise it would hit me in the bad spot. :)

• Yeah, measured the band of my Goddess again- it stretches to 46 so that’s not tight at all. The compression comes when I’m retaining water a lot.

• Ohhhh I have next to zero breast sensitivity (as in I can do any high impact activity with just a reguilar bra and not the slightest discomfort) but when I got on a poorly-chosen pill and water retention caused boob growth, my breasts were SUPER painful! I am not sure if there is something that can be done if you're prone to water retention in general, but perhaps there are options--I hope so because I really feel for you, I was in a lot of pain with all but 2 or 3 of my bras at that time.

  If the band on the Goddess was unsupportive that could definitely be the cause of discomfort and lack of containment so I have some hope for you that other nonwired and/or better-sized nonwired bras could work well--they are much more forgiving and offer more flexibility for fluctuating size.

  Re: the Dragonfly, ok I am not sure where your root ends on the side, but that is a perfect illustration of mismatch between cup shapes offered in wired bras and actual anatomical shape of the wearer's breasts: yes you definitely need all the depth... that is, all the depth that is at the FRONT of the cup. This particular bra's cup also has a lot of depth on the sides that is just no use to you because you have no breast tissue on your sides. This is how I fit into shallowish plunges like the Passionata Brooklyn (just citing it since it's a popular bra with many images/reviews here). The Brooklyn lacks space for center fullness and projection. I am normally a 32E/30F but being very projected and center full, the only way I can wear that bra comfortably is by sizing up to a 30G. In that size I fill the inner/lower 60% of the cup perfectly and it has enough containment and depth for me not to quad (in my normal size I quad hugely). The remaining 40% of the cup is wrapped round my side and there is a ton of empty space above.

• wendybien I take a water pill that does more or less a good job normally but not the week before my period.

  So here’s a picture where I drew my roots over the bra wire: https://www.bratabase.com/picture/dpd2z/
  as you can see they are shaped like a loaf of bread: flat on the bottom, round on the sides and curving around. _] If you know of a wire that wraps back at the top of the cup let me know. Vertical U shaped bra wires cut in on the bottom sides of my roots and are usually too tall. Otherwise the wires I currently use are shaped like this \_| and work the best of any wires I’ve tried.

• Also I only see a few bras in 40:15 on here that are wireless. Do you know of other brands besides Jeunique and Royce?

• cupandahalf occasionally I have seen wires that had a BIT more curve on the side but not enough to head all the way back in the opposite direction--that shape of wire would not be able to sit flat on the ribcage on most people.

• Many people need to size down at least one cup in seamed, nonwired styles, especially those like you or me who often size UP in wired bras to fit center fullness and have unused space at the sides and/or top; and some of the brands also run small in the band (like Triumph or Elila) so sizing is a bit of a different animal... PLUS often these bras are not updated in Bratabase so this is not necessarily the optimal place for research. But generally the brands I would expect to try to get a fit in your general cup volume, with a lot more projection, would be Goddess, Glamorise, Aviana (possibly), Elila (definitely read RollsAndCurves ' blog and reviews and also the reviews by Holly on The Lingerie Addict), and Triumph for starters. Elomi has some nonwired but you definitely want the seamed ones to allow better apex projection. I'll add some if I think of more.

  I noticed the other day that you have lots of sports bras--are you physically quite active either for your work/ordinary chores or for leisure? Because I'm still wondering if some of these super-tall wires may be hitting your pec muscles.

• I was buying sports bras as wireless bras with a less pointy profile. I swim a lot though. My pecs are significant. I can flex and make my breasts bounce.

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  Triumph only goes up to a 42:10. I’m wearing the largest cup size in a 40 band Goddess has to offer and the seams are already behind my arms (40:14). Glamorise only offers up to 40:11 and the band looks tts from reviews. Elomi only offers up to 40:14 and the cut is the same as the Goddess I have.

  I guess that leaves Elila and Aviana. Not a lot of options once you get into the K cup range.

• ok yeah that is what I was wondering about re: pectoral muscles. So it sounds like the vertical space nearer the front of your torso that would be needed for an underwire proportional to your breast root is severely limited by physical obstacles above (pecs, actual armpit and slight symmastia that you mentioned) and like many people you aren't comfortable when the wired structure settles well below your IMF, so the only thing the wires can do is settle at/near the actual IMF and tip outwards at the front--rendering them useless. Ultra narrow wires sitting so far forward that they're completely clear of pecs and armpit are would probably be a bit TOO far forward, i.e. would sit on the edges of your actual breast tissue, based on how you drew the root, if I understand correctly?

  For wireless the fit and sizing can be so absurdly off compared to wired, even for bras which come in almost identical-looking cuts with a wired and nonwired version (cf. the people who need different sizes in the Panache Sports depending on whether it has a wire or not). So, I honestly can't/shouldn't hazard a guess as to which of those size ranges you might actually be in--this is where the trial and error will come in (probably a job for free-exchange-and-return retailers only). To give you an example, in my own former size range where obviously each cup size jump represents a bigger difference in proportion to the whole cup, at one point I was wearing a 32F/FFUK in wired bras but in more traditional nonwired bras I was in 34D on average (34DD in a few and even 34C in a few others). And my 32 was NOT a tight band at all (I was under snug 29" underbust).

• I made myself a bra frame tonight by cutting out the cups of a frankenbra I already have and trying some different wires in it. I noticed two things: My wires are definitely too wide but the ones that are the right width are too short and jab me. So I tried a compromise pair that are about .25 in wider but taller on the side and they are just about perfect...if I wear an extender. So I think I need a 42 band after about 9 AM, lol. I’m going to try a few more 42HHs and see how they feel. I’ll see if Comexim will make me something in 100M or N as well. Who knows?

• Pretty exciting! Yes, delicate balance to strike cos you have limited real estate under your arm but with the weight and height of your particular bust, the wire can't be too short otherwise it will just not work. I know some people have done tutorials on cutting underwires to the exact height they wanted and refinishing the ends so if you can find some super tall ones that are precisely the right width...
  Have you tried altering cups before? I think that would be an awesome skill to have.

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• Don't keep it. The wires of my Elomi bras are like that too. At first it's kinda ok because the bra is supportive but once your bands stretch out and you need to close on second or tightest set of hooks... the issues will get worse and the bra become unsupportive because the wires don't lift and support in the right place. I had to give up on my Elomis for that reason. I really love everything else about them but they stopped working properly for me at some point.

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  Yeah it went back to Amazon. I decided that the wires are just too wide. The depth was great though, pretty much spot on for what I need, I think.

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  Yes that is also my problem, I need the depth of a JJ cup, but wire width of an HH would be enough. I think Elomi focus is more on larger band + large cups where a more wide shape is more common I guess?

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  I love the look of this bra, it’s such a pretty pattern and colour on you! Sorry it didn’t fit though

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  margesimpson thank you! I’m not surprised about the fit...I had a feeling it was going to be too big but I try to try on sizes that are bigger and smaller just to get a good baseline.

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  I think Elomi has changed the wires on their newer bras. Styles that have been around for a while like the basic colours of their staples (Morgan, Kim) can have still old "pudding" wires but I think newer bras will have the improved wire. If you get new seasonal colours most have new wires, if you get older style it depends on how old stock is.

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• Nice to see it tacks!! Always a thrill.

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• If you are close-set, maybe Polish bras?
  Ewa Michalak, Comexim, Nessa, etc.

• Oh, I saw that you found your perfect bra in the Panache Jasmine. Good for you!

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