3 comments

• I was not a fan of Hermione. The spacer foam isn't very supportive, and I felt that it made my breasts look saggy - and I'm in a 36F! It has the power mesh "boob sling" inside the cup but it really only covers the sides, not the bottom.

• Oh thanks for your insight. That does not sound like it would work for me: I'm a 34J-JJ in Elomi that could might go away with a 36HH.
  Hermione got on my list because of this review: http://branightmares.blogspot.ch/2013/07/elomi-hermione.html

  But it is probably really just more of a "comfort bra" than anything else?

  My goal is it to find everyday bras, that do give me enough support and stability to do housework and give me a decent shape to be able to leave the house with. Also they should be comfy since I want to wear them on full 12 hour days without having the urge to rip off my bra after 5 hours of wear.
  The shape has not to be "panache Jasmine or cleo" like, but Elomi Caitlyn set some basic standards for me: http://www.flickr.com/photos/96373516@N07/9272315722/in/set-72157634614085984
  so Caitlyn shape or better.

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19 comments

• I'm not sure where you got the measurement of a 28F. Each inch equals a cup or thereabouts and with a 5-6 inch difference, that'll only put you in a 28DD-E and a 28DD is a sister size of 32C. Which is probably why the 32C seems to fit great. You don't always need to be wearing the exact band of your underbust measurement because of the fact that you're small busted, there's not much need for a super firm band. You could comfortably go down in band to a 30D or 28DD without making much difference, only the bras would get harder to find.

• That's the size I was told on another site which made no since to me. They are a UK site so I guess that's the UK size but it didn't make since and another site the calculator said 28F.

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Tacking Gores

Per Branarchist 's suggestion, and because I'd been musing about it a bit myself, I think that there are certain breasts where tacking gores aren't really necessary/a sign of good fit. I realise that having the gore sitting flat in the middle is more supportive, but some of us just don't have enough room for a gore to ... go there!

For me personally, I have a small bridge of tissue between my breasts, or a 'v' shaped gap. There basically is no room between them. I've contemplated in the past whether or not I have mild symmastia. I've included a link to an album with some pictures to show how close-set my breasts actually are.

Gores never really used to tack on me in the past, but now that I've got into very large cup sizes, they occasionally do. This actually means they sit on breast tissue, which isn't that great, but they do sit flat. I've been thinking about how this can happen as it's not as though my breasts have got more space between them (if anything, I feel like there's less room) as they've got larger.

I had a small epiphany. I think what's actually happening is that because the cups are too wide for my frame, it pushes my breasts outwards at an angle, which gives room for the gore to sit flat if it's very sturdy. It's definitely the wider bras which do this. They've got lots of room in the outside, and not as much in the top middle, so at least initially, my breasts are happier to inhabit this space. I do find that during the day though, my breasts will try to head back into the top middle, so the gore will sometimes pop back out, or sometimes, they'll sit around the gore.

You can see in my Iwette how this happens, and this bra has been altered to be super forgiving because it's completely open in the top centre where I have the most fullness.

Is it better to have these bras which push my breasts outwards? I don't know. Personally, I've become quite accustomed to not having gores tack, and it's not like plunges are an option for me. My breasts are too projected to work with plunge styles, so the usual suggestion of looking for lower gores isn't really especially helpful.

Are there other ladies who have this bridge between their breasts? Do gores ever tack for you, and if so is there anything special about these bras? Are you people who like plunges?

Branarchist, can you interpret anything interesting from my thoughts? I know you have trouble with gores too, so I'd love to see if I've inspired any insight.
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Tacking Gores - Imgur

http://imgur.com/a/FwEXT

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Shared on Aug 01, 2013 Flag this

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• Boob twin! Posting this, so that I'll remember to contribute something more articulate and useful.

• I just looked up symmastia and I definitely have a mild case of it. There is no part between my breasts that isn't squishy. But I still fine tacking gores more comfortable. That being said, if they made an underwired bra with no underwires in the gore that didn't tack, that would definitely be more comfortable than a tacking gore with wires in it.

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15 comments

• A good idea might be to measure their ribcages while fully inhaled, and how you would measure yourself (probably fully exhaled and snug). If the difference is great, they'll need a much bigger band than their fully exhaled and snug measurement, because the bra will restrict their ability to breathe and sing properly if not. Tell us a little about your mom and your sister as individuals. Do they suffer from back pain, neck pain and such? Maybe even breast pain.

  If I were a singer I'd want a band that's not too snug, but one that will still hold me up so I don't lose support. Imo, it's kind of a myth that the band provides 80 per cent of the support (yeah sure it does, but having a snug band is NOT a direct gateway to bra heaven!), proper construction is key also. A wider band will disperse the weight of the breasts on a greater area, therefore, a slightly looser band can be equally as supportive as a tighter one, provided that the looser one is wider. My tip is wide band, high wings and wide straps :)

• thanks for all the help!

  No pain really since they have really, really loose bands in Warner's. Never heard of the brand. My mom usually wears one bra for a week straight. And she only has two bras. My sister swears by VS :/ and has three bras.

  My mom's a teacher, but does a lot of singing with the kids. My sister's doing her MA in performance, so plays a lot.

  I've got 5 bras coming for my mom as well as 2 more sports bras for her. They're 36 and 38s, but in a D cup, which I think will fit her better.

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6 comments

• That's fantastic! It's so nice to hear a positive story, congrats!

• Congrats! I'm hoping to convince my mom as well.

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16 comments

• Which under bust measurement do you want?

• Whichever you feel is most relevant for your bra fitting?

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9 comments

• That is really great to know! Bra fitting is an art as well as a science, that's for sure. There's a boutique here in Phoenix where the Bra Guru does Skype fittings. I didn't think it could be accurate because you can't really get a feel for someone's size on a screen. (i.e. Movie Stars always seem so tall but many are not).

  This woman is called The Boob Whisperer (her name is Scylvia Danese DiCola) and she looks like she's a lot of fun. http://danesecreations.com/mybrasizesecrets.html
  You could give her a try to see if she has your bras in stock.

  I may just go see her one of these days. At this point, I'm literally scared to though. Now that I've "fit" myself (relatively speaking) I'm afraid she'll tell me I'm all wrong!
  :(

• "The Boob Whisperer"

  tee hee hee!

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6 comments

• If anything it runs a bit small in the cup (and in the band as you mentioned). You might be OK with a 28GG, if you're OK with feeling a bit compressed (kind of necessary with a compression bra, some people just aren't into it though). I run between a 30GG-32G (open on top) and a 30H-32GG in regular bras, and the 32GG in shock absorber is perfect for me. My breast tissue is a little bit soft in some places, but quite firm in others and does not like feeling squashed, and I love my shock absorber.

• Is it the Shock Absorber Active Multi Sports (4490) ? If so, I'd agree with the above comment that it runs small in the back and cup. I'm normally a 30DD but wear a 32DD in this. It's a brilliant sports bra; I wear mine for running, and whilst admittedly I'm pretty small-chested, nothing moves. At all.

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Jul 30, 2013 -- Breast shape ratios compilation

I have finally managed to make a rough compilation of the data gathered in this ancient bra adventure http://www.bratabase.com/profile/353/adventures/302/ and I think there is some interesting stuff to be learned from the exercise. I'll briefly present some first observations, but by all means, do join in with the discussion and share your insights!

You can find the 'scattergram' that ... contains the data here: http://i.imgur.com/jvyib2C.jpg

First some quick notes as to what is visualised in the diagram as well as a reminder of the terminology used:

- this data represents about 35 participants, give or take a couple. Some have provided more than one result, which is why some names appear twice in the picture. Reasons for providing multiple results were (1) a significant difference between left and right breast, (2) a significant difference at different moments during the menstrual cycle, or (3) a significant difference between different ways of measuring underbust and breast perimeter.

- 'Breast root width ratio' (horizontal axis) indicates the amount of space the breast root takes up on the body, measured along the underbust line. 1,0 equals 50%, or from the centre of the sternum to the body's halfway point under the arm, the body's 'side seam' if you will. This point was chosen somewhat arbitrarily and in future renditions it may be shifted somewhat, but for now it seems a reasonably useful demarcation line between what I call 'narrow' ( 1,0) breast roots.

- 'Breast depth ratio' (vertical axis) indicates the relative amount of projection, with 1,0 equalling a 'perfect' hemisphere ('perfect' as in geometrical body, not as in ideal breast shape). This is chosen as demarcation line between what I call 'shallow' (<1,0) respectively 'deep' breasts. In words: a 'shallow' breast projects less than a hemisphere (its projecting radius is shorter than it's breast root radius), whereas a 'deep' breast projects more than a hemisphere (its projecting radius is longer than its breast root radius).

- above 'definitions' result in a division of the graph into four quadrants,: 'narrow shallow', 'narrow deep', 'wide deep', and 'wide shallow'. Of course, these terms are only indicative. In reality it is a gliding scale in all directions.

Now on to the preliminary results:

When I started gathering these data I was half and half (but not really) expecting to see some 'trends' or 'clusters' of similar shapes emerge that would 'back up' the different grading rule assumptions of the main bra-manufacturing companies. However, hardly surprising, reality shows no such order whatsoever: breast shapes are literally all over the place, albeit within certain apparent limits.

The first limit is what appears to be the minimum breast root width ratio. In this sample, nobody has reported a breast root ratio smaller than 0,8 or 40%, which is interesting as this really isn't terribly narrow, in the sense that it doesn't confine the breasts to the front of the body only. The biggest group of 'narrow rooters' is found in the 'narrow shallow' quadrant. Hardly surprising, this quadrant contains the smaller chested amongst us, many of which fall in the Busenfreundinnen category 'kleine Breitburst'. Maybe it's just me but I find this lightly ironic: no, our breasts are not wide -- breasts don't really come any narrower than this -- they are just shallow

The second limit is the minimum breast depth ratio. There's one measurement that dips below this imaginary line, but the 'sensible' minimum for this sample seems to be 0,7. Breasts don't really come much shallower than that, it appears.

The third limit is what appears to be a kind of 'diagonal ceiling' and perhaps the most interesting of all. No ratios have been reported that transgress the outermost diagonal line I drew in grey. This has led me to the following hypothesis: I'm thinking that these diagonals somehow correlate with cup size. I am guessing that people on the same diagonal roughly have the same cup size. Not in terms of absolute breast volume, but relative to their respective bodies, just how cup sizing works. It seems to work in the 'narrow shallow' quadrant and it appears to add up at the outer limit, so chances are it may work in between as well. I just have to figure out the exact spacing between the lines and who knows -- I may have found a new tool to determine cup size (with underbust as rough bandsize indicator, I gather). Anyway, the way I drew the diagonals in this diagram is purely indicative of this idea. The lines have not been 'trued' in terms of their spacing and as such they don't correspond to cup sizes YET but the notion is there.

Two caveats:

- the accuracy of the measurements underlying the results: no single method has been followed, so individual measurements may not be 100% comparable. However, as a rough sketch I believe the information in this 'scattergram' is interesting and informative enough. I do hope to rerun the experiment in a more systematic manner soon (maybe tie it up with @Vee's SIZEM calculator somehow?) and gather more as well as more precise and consistent data.

- the ratios calculated here only refer to the horizontal dimensions of the breasts. They don't say anything about vertical dimensions and as such ignore aspects like shortness or tallness of breast tissue. In an ideal world, maybe a third axis could be added to reflect these aspects as well, but for now this diagram already offers quite a lot of food for thought, so lets not run too much ahead of ourselves ...
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• Brilliant idea!

  Thank you :)
  

• Please see below:

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5 comments

• It usually means that the bottom of the cup is too shallow for you, preventing your tissue from dropping into that space, or it can be the 'orange in a glass' effect (http://bustyresources.wikia.com/wiki/Orange-in-a-glass_effect). Both of these could even be causing the quadboob; even if the volume of the bra should really be correct for you, you're not getting to use it all.

• I agree that the cups are probably too small, so the bottom part of your breast only fits in the smallest part of the cup, then the weight just naturally pushes the wire down. It may also mean that the band is too big so it's not supporting your breasts, it's being dragged down by them. If you think the wire is a good fit for your root you may just need a deeper cup style. Regardless, it sounds like you need a smaller band. Try to assess each component separately (band, wires, cups, in that order) to identify where the issue is. If they all seem ok but the bra as a whole doesn't fit, it's probably a style issue, not a fit issue.

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6 comments

• Tighten the straps. I have a terrible bruise like scar from that. Tightening took the weight from my breasts off the wire and relieved both the pressure, pain, and scars.

• izzylawliet The straps are already really tight, but I can try..
  Thanks for the advice :)

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• No I haven't but I've thought about it a lot. It said in their paragraph that their bra specialist picks out the bras that they think would be good for you, but maybe they would work with the customer and listen to what she's interested in.
  I like buying from there, right now 60% off and an extra 20% off until Sunday and they have free shipping.

• I've read a few reviews on it, and their seems to be mixed opinions about this service. I've seen a few people say it was amazing and they were able to get a few bras that fit them amazingly... but then I've seen a few say that the fitter didn't listen to them or seem to know her stuff, and they ended up with bras that didn't fit. But, I mean, that happens sometimes -- the fitter is not always right; and not every person will be happy with the selection they receive, and as long as they don't need to pay for the stuff they aren't happy with, what's the big deal?

  The biggest complaint I've read about this fitting service is that they charge you for every bra they send you at first, and then apparently refund the money once you return the bras. But I guess I kinda understand why they have to do that, if the complaints I've read are right. The company has to cover themselves somehow, right?

  ...and I'm ranting. I've just been going back and forth on this fitting service for about two weeks now.

  Good to know about their awesome sales at the moment. I'll have to take a look!

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13 comments

• A bra that fits well should feel great right away. If the band is too tight it can cause the wires to become distorted. Try it with an extender and it that feels right, you're probably very close to finding your perfect bra. Some brands have bands that do stretch out a lot rather quickly, so it would be good to read some reviews. It may not hurt to do a fit request so you can get more info on the specific bra and help evaluating the fit.

• I think I have to disagree. My bras usually do need to be broken in a little bit. A bra that feels comfortable when I first try it on its probably too big in the band, and doesn't fit very well after I wear it for a few hours, much less a few weeks. Maye it's because I have an oddly shaped ribcage (kind of wide side to side, very shallow and flat front to back), but until the wires bend to my shape the bra doesn't quite fit right. I've been through a lot of trial and error, but I've learned how a bra that will eventually fit me feels when I first try it on. If it digs in a little bit under my arm toward the back, and presses at the wire in the middle, once it breaks in it fits. I don't intentionally bend the wires by hand, but if I take a well fitting bra and fold it at the center gore, the wires are shaped like a teardrop or arrowhead. Obviously they don't sell underwires shaped like that.

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My worst fit issue and how I got my bra fitting all wrong

Here's a pic of me with my underbust lines lined up in different positions. A large part of my boobs seems to be invisible until I lean over and some of it does fill out underneath! And that made me think my bras should sit lower. When you are faced with your whole underbust line suddenly being about 3 cm ... lower than standing you do get confused.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/69048_10151562077145540_835796198_n.jpg

From there stemmed problems like; hearburn because of bras, because they were in my stomach, breathing problems because of bras, because they were in my stomach. And also my ribcage widened just before my root ended before my lats.

This made my boobs appear fuller in the lower outer quadrants, extremely shallow compared to the cup sizes I needed to get around those crazy bones and of course I got a terrible wire distortion.

So one day when trying to figure out why on earth a gore bent out 7 cm from my body would still tack (?!) I found I had like an "island" of bones just underneath the gore where I had to put my bra band or elsewhere nothing prevented my bras from digging in in directly into my lungs and stomach.

So I just decided I had to try to see if could manage to collect my root higher up. And I could. Instead of using that false lower underbust line I yanked the whole thing higher up, tightened the straps and tried a smaller bra.

Wire distortion went away, bones were now slightly underneath the cups, boobs were more projected compared to the cups needed. And everything more or less simply added up. But I have no problem understanding how I could get it so wrong. I seriously also doubt a professional bra fitter would have seen it. I had a false root, a false boob position a false boob shape.
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• Oh my god! Hopefully this doesn't get removed...but that looks like "lawsuit-worthy" damage! Do you have scars??

  The reason bra fitting has become so important in my life is that, to me, it's almost a "human rights" topic. When I think of all the years of dumping money into the grubby profit margins of VS, etc. (only to believe that there was something wrong with me because their bras looked so damn bad)...it burns me up to no end. I have a daughter (she's 5...so not wearing bras yet!) and I want to make sure she never has to go through the emotional and physical pain I went through over something that should be known by and available to all women; bras that fit!

  I can't tell you how upset your photo makes me. To think that you were driven to do this to yourself...I am just distraught.

  You look BEAUTIFUL in the last bras you've posted (I really like that Andorra on you) and it makes me happy to see how great you make the bras look.

  PS - because of one of your Adventures I discovered the Bettie Page boutiques and I LOVE the clothing!! I had heard of Bettie Page, of course, but I wouldn't have paid attention to the store I saw in Las Vegas had it not been for your post. (Also, I would have been intimidated to go in, thinking the clothing would be ill-suited for my 12-year-old-boy-shaped bod.) Because of you and others here, I put aside my lack-of-boobs-insecurity and had a ball with my sister trying on all kinds of styles and buying "curvy" clothes. Thank you!

• Some of this is hard for me to follow, but I also figured out that as long as the wires are tall enough, I can go fairly narrow in the wire. I think I need a 30 band at this point (in EM, I think a 34/75 band) and the volume of an EM PL 32G, which would probably mean 34FF (in PLs, I'm not sure if I will be able to do their other models except for their S's and SM's). It's so weird because from the side view it looks like my root is completely horizontal, but I get the same amount of armpit fat in narrower wires as wide wires. It confuses me because I can collect my root on the top part of my sides at a fairly narrow width, but I can't do the bottom parts of my sides. It's like it's a totally different tissue, not malleable like fat, but sort of squishy, but definitely not muscle. Do you think I should ignore that?

  I haven't found anything tall enough except for EM PLs (I definitely remember the CH I owned very briefly having wires that were way too short even though the cup was way too big). Based on your S Fresh (that apparently doesn't fit anymore right?), do you think that S/SM shape will have tall enough wires?

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• A friend said to me about her boobs the other day, "You have to take care of them! You only get two!" :)

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6 comments

• Umm, I can't help with the shape as I am not particularly familiar with these bras but.. Parfait has the casey http://www.amazon.com/Parfait-Molded-Plunge-Underwire-2801/dp/B0055WWU9C panache has the porcelain and the cleo Jude http://www.belle-lingerie.co.uk/search/keywords/t-shirt%20bra/ curvy kate has the daily boost and the smoothie , Gossard has the ego boost (http://www.brastop.com/tshirt-bras.aspx all found here).. These are most of the tshirt plunge bras I know of, let me know if you have further questions Hope this helps :) oh and here's a resource blog of someone who is a similar size http://windiegardie.wordpress.com/ and http://fussybusty.com/category/author/amy/

• If you want narrower wires and cleavage + more centered I'd say Comexim probably is your best bet. Look at http://obsessedwithbreasts.blogspot.com latest post for more info :)

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The Cleos - Marcie vs. Melissa vs. Meg ect

I wish there was a way to compare the unpadded Cleo bras. I mean, other than comparing their measurement. Several of them fit me fairly well, except for one or two issues. And the issue is different from model to model.
The Marcie fits really well in the cup, but the straps are a bit too far apart, and the ... wire is too short and cuts into my right breast at the side.
The Melissa was PERFECT - no pain anywhere. Even the straps seemed almost okay. Except for massive in-cup quadboob. Like the upper section was way too big near the seam. It was even bunching up a bit.
The Meg was really wrong. Cut in a lot, but with too much room in the upper section. And the straps were really painful and far apart.
The Lucy is too tight at the too edge, but too big in a larger side. The straps are also painful.

These are the ones I've tried. Is there anything like the Melissa, but with a more even seam? The red lace part was just really lose near the seam. I've looked at the Natasha, but I don't know if the lace is lose at the seam to..? I hope my explanation makes sense, I've just heard it mentioned quite a bit, so I figured its a fairly known issue with this bra.
I've tried a Marcie in a bigger cup, but it gapes, and the straps are even more apart.
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Peggyko

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• The Melissa is part of the "Cleo George" family, which tends to work best on shallow breasts. IMO, the Melissa has the loosest top panel and the shallowest apex, which makes it perfect for tall-shallow/FOT boobies like mine :D Most of the other George balconettes I've tried have acted way differently.

  Other George-cut balconettes: Marcie, which IMO has the shallowest lower half. Zia and Natasha seem pretty similar to me, they seem to have a tighter top section and slightly deeper-cut. Same with Bella and Chloe. I personally haven't tried the original Cleo George, so I can't speak for it. The upcoming Ellis is also in this cut. In promo pictures, it seems closer to the Melissa, but I don't know anyone who's tried it yet, so I'm not sure. Another upcoming George-cut balconette is Millie, which seems more like Zia/Natasha, but again, that's just a guess.

  The rest of the bras you tried are in different cuts (Meg/Sasha/Alexa/Lily cut, Lucy family), so it makes sense that they didn't work out quite as well. It seems that the Meg/Sasha/Alexa/Lily cut works best on deep, FOT boobs, and the Lucy family works best on shallow, FOB boobs.

  P.S. Lucy family = Brooke, Francis, Lucy, Bonnie

  Hope that helps!

• thatbradoesnotfither see this is what confuses me about cleo- everyone goes on about the Bella having a tighter top section than the Melissa, but from my experience its the opposite- my bella is a pretty good fit (I quad boob slightly on my bigger side) but in the Melissa the quadboob was horrendous, even tho the projection was amazing, the quadboob made it completely unwearable :'-(

  It's scared me off buying more (even tho I love everything about them) because they seem to behave so differently on me than on others.

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• Hmm, I feel like this is the sort of thing that pics would definitely help with - otherwise there's too much visualizing going on and I'm not sure if I could suggest any changes. Perhaps submit a fit request? That said, there's generally no harm in trying another size if you have concerns about the one you have presently, if only to really determine that you're definitely between sizes.

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• If you fit the Deco well you're probably full on top. If the Deco fits you well in 32FF a 34F would definitely be worth a shot. Both bras are good for full on top and run large in the cup. The Marcie runs tighter in the band though. You might be able to swing a 32FF though.

  The Lucy is very different. It works on even to full on bottom shallow breasts. The Deco has projection and the Lucy does not. The Lucy has wider wires than the Deco as well. If you have trouble with soft cups gaping though, the Lucy might be a better option. I would look into 32FF and 32G in the Lucy.

• I generally find cleo bands quite loose. I'm between a 30 and 32 and Cleos 32 bands are always too loose and extremely stretchy.
  And I find the cups true to size. The deco runs big though, so if you wear a 32FF in the deco, I don't think you should size down.

  I'm saying 32FF or for the Lucy 32FF or 32G

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26 comments

• Cool! I just love mine :D But I will alter the band :)

  So the cups wasn't too tall for you? In my size the wires weren't wide, just tall :) 32HH I think has 16 cm wide wires :)

• No, the cups were surprisingly fine. I guess they simply were shallow enough overall to make my conical boobs fill them out okay. As to the wires: in 30DD the wires were some of the widest and 'shallowest' I have seen so far. 13.5cm -- trust me, that's really really wide in this size range. Quite vertical at the centre gore, but a very shallow slope towards the side. I've never seen wires with such a shallow slope whilst not on a body. They also felt very very 'thin', if that makes sense. Not flimsy, but just 'thin', almost as if they were round instead of flat. Not the most comfortable wires, in my opinion.

  But I can't say it didn't fit. I just didn't care for the design nor the shape it gave me: practically minimised with virtually no lift (maybe I imagined it, but I thought the apex even looked slightly downward pointing), not exactly something I need.

  I have taken photos that I still have to upload ...

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